With change being the only constant, once again we will be faced with it here in Linden Hills.
Please feel free to read the comments below. This site is now closed to further comments. Thanks you.
Sunday, January 17, 2010
This is an open neighborhood forum. Feel free to offer your suggestions. Please e-mail or tell your friends and neighbors about this opportunity too. Just click on "comments" below to offer yours. Thank you!
Although I am wounded by the loss of the Co-op, I’m trying to think positively and imagine new neighborhood-friendly businesses here on 43rd Street. Many thanks to Dave Luger for making this blog site available for community input. The gesture goes a long way toward alleviating apprehensions and turning a sense of loss into a glimmer of hope.
A family practice clinic would greatly enhance the livability of our community. Such a professional service business would also tend to be a longer term and more stable tenant than traditional retail. (I just saw a recent speech by Paul Krugman where he thinks we may be beginning a US version of Japan's lost decade....)
It would still be soooo nice to be able to walk to a small grocery/convenience store. While I appreciate the fine shops and restaurants in the village, they are primarily a destination for non-residents. The lack of practical, everyday services (e.g. drug store, Tom Thumb) has been one of the few negative changes in the area since we moved here in '91. A grocery store might not be exotic, but it would improve the quality of life for locals.
"Although I am wounded at the loss of the Co-op..."
This statement leaves me both perplexed and reminiscent of Bernini's famous statue, The Ecstasy of St Teresa. Bernini was certainly a master but most critics agree 'Ecstasy' is high theater encased in marble. How does this relate to your comment?
Surely you know the co-op is planning to move less than a mile away from it's current location. I just can't understand how anyone fragile enough to be 'wounded' by such a "loss" manages to function despite genuine tragedies such as the Haitian earthquake.
As Teresa was innocent of worldly passion, I am innocent of rhetorical device. Perhaps we should meet for coffee and you can explain it to me. (Please leave your arrows at home, though.)
Back to the Co-op....I'm delighted they have an opportunity to expand and prosper while staying in our community. This expansion actually increases the net square footage of productive commercial real estate in our city and in Linden Hills. Not a bad thing, if you think about it.
In the short time since this blog started there are already several excellent suggestions for businesses that would potentially enhance and enliven the 43rd/Upton business district for existing businesses and Linden Hills residents.
All teasing aside, this has the potential to be a very winning opportunity for the Co-op, the community, Dave Luger, the business district, and whatever new business joins us at 2813 West 43rd Street.
I too am very sad to see the co-op moving down the street. It is a great move for them, but it is a huge loss. I would favor any local business that is locally owned. I did like the idea of a dog related business. My dog would love to go there and get treats :)
Hmm hard to say what would likely flourish there. Personally I would like a drug store, new book store (as opposed to a used book store), or a yoga studio, but there ARE a good number of these types of establishments not far away.
I too will miss the LH Co-op being there, but I do think the larger building and option to buy make the new location on 44th street a good idea.
I'm a co-op member, and also disheartened by the planned move. Presently, I can walk to the co-op, where as with the move it will change the way I shop. I often pick up only what I'll eat that day, often shopping before the meal. I wonder if the directors who orchestrated this change in venue considered foot traffic vs. other means by which customers arrive at the co-op. 44th and France has very little foot traffic and a history of a failed grocery store AND a failed deli @ the liquor store. I would favor a socially responsible convenience store with a lunch counter or fast food outlet. By the way, Teresa, the situation in Haiti has nothing to do with the location of the Co-op. (True, true and unrelated). A person can be wounded by a personal slight or an off-hand comment. Not everything that affects us is high drama or on an International scale.
it would be amazing to have a bikram yoga studio there! That's rather selfish of me since I'm an addict of this style of yoga. Do we need an awesome daycare facility, montessori? Love the pet grooming idea. There are tons of animal lovers in the neighborhood. I loved having the drug store/convenience store back in the day (where Dunn Bros is now) but it failed. Maybe an upscale deli for takeout.
For those of us who live in the neighborhood and walk the neighborhood, to the library, to the park, the move of the co-op is a terrible loss. It is the one "practical" spot. The other shops are lovely and I can buy gifts and order flowers. I even get my hair cut and brows waxed in the 'hood. But what makes it so darn convenient is that I can get "milk and eggs" or "bananas and Cheerios" or "a bagette and (string or brie!) cheese" and not have to get in my car should I so choose. In this respect, it is a loss. My kid's scooter to the co-op for a gallon of milk or some apples. They buy healthy snacks while they are with friends. THEY are going to miss the co-op. I must add that "bigger isn't always better", but that's for the board of the co-op to deal with.
I would like to be able to buy stamps somewhere though! ;)
How about "Guse's Green Grocery Too"! It doesn't have to be the co-op, but I don't want a Tom Thumb either! Too expensive for the quality of what you get. Atleast I'm paying for good whole food now, not processed stuff.
I've always loved the fact that if there's a blizzard outside and my car is buried under 2 feet of snow/won't start, I can walk down and get milk and dog food. I would hope beyond hope that there's some way the co-op would stay (I don't need more space/more offerings--the carefully edited selection is one of the things I love about the store,) but if it absolutely must move, some things to consider:
What we don't need: --Another kids' clothing/toy store --Another hair salon --Another garden/home store
What we do need: --A bookstore (new or used) --A casual place to eat dinner (i.e. pizza or something like Broders' deli) --A nice, low-key, family-friendly pub? --A local, independent pharmacy (i.e. Olsen Brothers or Clancey's)
P.S. Let's try to keep it a local business rather than a national chain if we can.
There are a few options that would certainly diversify and improve the Linden Hills community. For instance:
1) A global food market. The space has already proven itself capable of supporting a grocery store, and there seems to be no reason why a market featuring/serving ethnic food couldn't make it work in such a great, open to new things, neighborhood.
2) An expanded deli style restaurant. For example, a larger version of Broder's Deli, a New York Jewish-style delicatessen, or even a pizza shop.
3) A local pharmacy, which would provide a great alternative to Walgreens or CVS - and would certainly be well supported by the locals!
4) A Cheepo style record/cd/book store. There are plenty of stores in Linden Hills great for young children--but where to shop for our teenagers?
5) A soda fountain/pizza/music venue for people to hang out.
Choices to avoid:
1) We don't need another flower/gardening store! 2) We don't need another toy store! 3) We don't, don't, don't need another kid's clothing store! 4) We don't need another gift shop (i.e Bibelot) store!
We have great shops in all of these categories already. The last thing Linden Hills needs is more competition for these stores. Instead it would be wonderful if the neighborhood could replace the co-op with a business that fits a unique niche.
As others have mentioned, the fact that the co-op is moving a mile away isn't fine for those of us who live in the opposite direction - it'll be too far for me and my kids to walk (which we do, even in the winter). I'm planning on selling my shares back when it moves.
I second suggestions for another deli/convenience store. The co-op has been very successful - another owner can certainly do the same. An establishment that draws patrons daily will also benefit the other businesses in the area.
I realize that this may offend some of the teetotalers in the hood, but I remember that neighborhood meeting we held when Lake Harriet Pizza wanted a beer and wine license and people were up in arms thinking it would lead to crime, prostitution and organized gambling in LH.
That is ancient history, and now I am convinced that we could use a good old-fashioned neighborhood pub. A place where one could stop by after work, share a beer and conversation. After all, we already do this at our neighborhood get-togethers.
My thinking is something like what one might see up north, vintage, with an antique juke box and a vintage Hamm's sign (purchased on e-bay!). I could even see a mounted Muskie on the wall. It would also be great to be able to walk home, instead of driving.
I believe it is essential to have an "everyday use" or practical type of business in this spot. Many of the stores at the 43rd and Upton node are geared toward specialty shoppers and while I do use these stores, I think the node would be most enhanced by a business that draws the same customers one to two times a week. A convenience/market/drug store of some type would provide this.Or perhaps a neighborhood pub and wine bar, the neighborhood is in sore need of evening and late night entertainment and dining opportunities.If multiple tenant space is being considered we have plenty of great examples in the city, Midtown Global market comes to mind. I think it is also important to keep in mind the entire node is experiencing change as the Famous Daves location is being considered for redevelopment. I think it is important that we as a neighbors take this opportunity to voice our input in the real change that is taking place (whether we like it or not) in this area. We have the option to move forward, or try to maintain the status quo. Thanks for creating this opportunity for input.
Another interesting development would be the look of the space. Is there any chance that a mural could be painted on the exterior walls--perhaps of Lake Harriet or of a grove of Linden trees?
Great idea to solicit advice from neighborhood residents. Thanks for asking!
Each time a business closes around 43rd & Upton, I pray that it's not replaced by another boutique store, and those prayers have for the most part gone unanswered.
I'd love to see a convenience store, a deli, a wine shop, a burger bar in the co-op space -- small businesses that would attract a lot of walk-up business. I miss the cheap eats of the Mekong Cafe!
How about a smaller version of Cossetta's? Now, I'm dreaming. . .
Hi Folks, Linda Haug here. Owner Cafe Twenty Eight and 16 year resident of Linden Hills. I too would love to see a pub, wine bar, brew pub in that space. In Linden Hills we operate under what is known as a charter wine license, the most restrictive license given. First all beverage alcohol must be accompanied by the purchase of food. In fact a food order should be taken before a drink order. You cannot design your space with a bar with barstools, no amplified music; you must sell 70% of your sales in food. No hard liquor. This means you couldn't just drop in for a beer without food so the casual nature is somewhat limited. I feel that it would difficult to create the right "pub" environment with the current restrictions. From my understanding there are three ways to change the licensing restrictions that we have in Linden Hill, all 13 members of the city council must approve a change or a law passed (like Parasole did for the Maude space before Maude took it) or a city wide referendum. If I am mistaken in anything I have written here please let me know. Thanks Dave & Georgie for hosting this forum.
This is Dave Luger. Given these like-minded comments I tried to find out more about this too. But so far I'm confused. If Betsy (our councilperson) is following this blog, could you (she) please explain how our Node can be less restrictive? How would we go about it? I will add that on the street, I get this request more that any other business idea. Thanks!
How about a "genius bar" pub with a wait staff that can help visitors with smart phones, lap tops, blogging, digital photo management, face book posting, and tweeting? Randy Fielding
If there is a chance of getting the liquor laws changed (maybe limiting amount served per customer), I think that would be great. Maybe a solution to the 3 most popular suggestions could be if Zumbro would be willing to be open in the evenings for wine/beer/appetizers/pizzas/etc. In the old Co-op could be a store with all our everyday grocery needs, maybe a nice deli/lunch counter, and that carries dog food/treats/toys/etc.
Here is another vote for a family-friendly neighborhood pub with outdoor patio tables, Surly on tap, high-end bar food with local meats and veggies, tapas style appetizers, decent breakfasts on weekends, a good lunch menu, small acoustic shows or community open stage nights, big wood tables where people can work or meet, comfortable chairs, and free wifi. I can dream.
p.s. While we are changing the law to allow this, we should also change the ridiculous ban on street food vendors/trucks.
My family would fully support a locally-owned mom & pop convenience store and/or pharmacy that takes the space! Do we know what is going into the Famous Dave's space yet? I was thinking it might be replaced with a restaurant/bar, in which case we may not need that option in the co-op spot. Thanks for this forum!
As the Coop will be moving out of walking distance for me, I would be delighted if our friendly Linden Hills Butchery and Deli would also feel the need to expand and would find the funds to move into the Coop's spot. If they could add over-the-counter drugstore items as well as fresh vegetables it would be even better.
Ananymous asked on January 31 "what's going to happen to the Famous Dave's space?". Please enlighten me. It's one of our family's favorite hangouts in the neighborhood. Don't tell me we are going to lose that one, too.
I am with Myrtle on what we don't need more of -- please no more garden shops or children's toy/clothing shops;) They're great, but don't need further competition. A couple ideas:
1. Tastefully done Irish Pub, similar to what Excelsior has in Jake O'Connor's (www.JakeOConnors.com). A place to get some Irish Stew during the day and listen to a trio and drink a glass of wine by night. Sounds like laws would need to change for this, and it sounds like they should.
2. One of the best parts about our 'hood is the hardware store because its charming and functional. The coop space seems large enough for a mom and pop drug/convienece store and dog store/self doggie wash shop. With 2 businesses there it probably be more financially sustaining for the owners.
3. I don't know if this would work, but a small one-screen movie pub theater (have a slice of pizza, glass of wine and see a movie).
I didn't know Famous Dave's was leaving too?! I will have to read up on that. Both spots have tons of parking (maybe we take part one of the lots and create a small park with lawn bowling, outdoor chess/checkers tables, horeshoes, and giant outdoor scrabble).
Thanks coop for opening this up to the neighborhood to discuss and we look forward to seeing your new home take form down the street!
I also vote for a family friendly pub and/or a deli that serves breakfast as well. Or, a catch all restaurant similar to the Edina grill would be great too.
I would love to see a neighborhood bar/restaurant like Cafe Maude on Penn avenue. Or the new King area place on 46th and Bryant, across from Cafe Ena. A real gathering spot that is unlike Famous Dave's or Cafe 28. I love the Cafe but think a classy bar would be a nice addition. I agree, no more gift stores, coffee shops, kids places. I would love a convenience store too, I always missed the Tom Thumb. I don't think that makes it there, however. Looking forward to the change, and happy the co-op isn't going far. We can all still get there!
I think Linden Hills would be a great home for the non-profit organization run by C. Allen Thompson called the Imagine Foundation, which is a foundtion for victims of religious violence. Minneapolis would be a great home for such an organization.
I too would love to see a classy bar with real alcohol and a great mixologist! A bar with a kitchen that makes tapas or something like that. Though I have no objection to the wine/beer idea, those of us who are allergic to wine simply can not go there. I say we should change the law to allow liquor in our neighborhood. In addition, the new proposed location of the coop is still within walking distanc.
I love the bar/wine/food idea. Something like Cafe Maude which has great food, drinks and music and has been a great improvement to it's area as well. It would be so nice to be able to have little happy hour app. or light dinner with locally grown foods and a cocktail and then walk down to the lake in the warm months.
I agree that a beer/wine/food place would be great there. Something like Cafe Maude with great food, full bar and great music. I like the idea of being able to have an app. or dinner, a couple drinks and then walk down to the lake on warm nights.
Sounds like a lot of folks want a "hang-out-spot" with a liquor license. A place to meet friends or take your family out after working all day.
I'm all for this type of business although we know there are restrictions (and for good reason) in the neighborhood.
Whatever goes in there must be a business model that can pull a profit and will stick around for a long while.
Although I’d love a small niche-type shop, those businesses only draw certain types of customers - for example, dog owners who are willing to buy expensive doggie treats and live in the neighborhood.
Furthermore, I would love to see a pharmacy/gift shop (like what used to be where Dunn Bros is now) but who would support it? It would have a relatively small and loyal customer base, those who live very close by, support local businesses, and love the convenience. But why would someone from a mile or more away choose to go to a LH drug store vs. Walgreens, or for that matter, Cub, Target or Costco on their way home from work? Can an independent store survive with such a customer base?
In today's world, I don’t' see many businesses surviving on the customers who live close enough to walk AND chose to support their local businesses. The business needs to be interesting and different enough that people will choose it over their many options in the 5 mile-radius area. (I’d drive all the way over to WA Frost in St. Paul because it’s unique and “worth it”)
Bayer Hardware has figured out a business model that is working and we’re lucky to have them (and I hope we all buy ALL our hardware purchases there and not just the nickel/dime ones). I know the neighborhood would really grieve if they were gone!
That’s my 2-cents worth. Congratulations to the COOP!
For those who are aggrieved by the move of the Linden Hills Co-op out of Linden Hills, I'd like to see us get together and start another Co-op that serves Linden Hills rather than the vehicle traffic that travels down France Avenue. Those of us who do shop there almost every day, who walk or bike (or drive), and who'd like fresh local produce, meats, grains and nuts, etc.
I am very sad to see the co-op leave "downtown" Linden Hills. The health of our neighborhood is very much dependent on the success of this business node, and I believe all the businesses are somewhat dependent on each other as well. That said, I would love to see another small grocery store, but please, not another Tom Thumb! A small bar/pub, a place "where everybody knows your name" would also be fabulous. I understand there would need to be some changes regarding the liquor licensing restrictions, but I don't think it would require a unanimous vote of the city council. I believe it would have to go through a couple of committees and then need only a majority of votes on the council. At any rate, you can do just about anything with enough neighborhood support and political will, and judging from the comments on this forum we seem to share a lot of similar values and ideas about what we would like to see in this space in the future. Thanks to Dave Luger for creating this forum where we can share ideas about the future of our neighborhood. Please consider all this when deciding what will go into this space, because it's success depends on it!
Anything but Patina or more precious kiddie stores. Linden Hills is fast becoming a cutsie destination for suburban moms with time to kill rather than a genuine neighborhood. Please, please put in a grocery or drugstore.
My vote is for a small grocery store. I moved into the area within the last year and one of the 'perks' of Linden Hills was the co-op. I'm bummed that I didn't do my homework re: the co-op move. This is a delightful area of town.
I would love to see a drug/grocery store that offers basics, but also has a cool, old style soda fountain with cozy booths for lunch or after-school gatherings. But, I have to admit, a great neighborhood pub would be so fun... Maybe in the style of a European tobac. Perhaps there is room for both... Change is good. A few years from now we will wonder what all the fuss was about!
As a resident of Linden Hills for the past 23 years we have seen business' come and go.
One of the reasons that keeps us here is the feeling of an old time neighborhood with all it's character and charm.
We were saddened when we lost the drug store, Lake Harriet Pizza, the dance studio, the old time butcher, and the gas station (where Famous Dave's is now) to a chain coffee shop, BBQ and upscale butcher to name a few.
We are concerned about the proposed development idea of the Famous Dave's spot with retail and condo's in one space. Please keep in mind that the area of 43rd and Upton has a hard time supporting the weekend traffic that brings in people from the surrounding suburbs. To add a development of such would bring in more traffic and it would take away from that charm of the neighborhood that we all love.
Taking the Co-op space and limiting it to just a dog grooming/retail space would do nothing for many of us.
We love Zumbro (wish it was open in the evening) Cafe 28 and Famous Dave's. But what about bringing Lake Harriet Pizza back home? A place for the locals to have as their own, to meet neighbors of old and new and maybe for our kids to have to bring a date too and not brake the bank?
I’ve read all the entries on this blog – here’s my 2 cents: Having the coop at its current location adds so much joy to my life. On my regular (near daily) walk to the business district I sometimes pinch myself just to be sure I’m awake and not dreaming that this fantasy land, a.k.a. the Peoples Republic of Linden Hills, with its haven of convenient, fun and interesting shops, is reality and not a dream. I LOVE the co-op in its current location – I can WALK and pick up whatever I need; I love the wholesomeness and freshness of the food, I love the focus on locally grown food, I love the selection, I LOVE it that I can buy in small quantities and/or in bulk. The new co-op location will not be a convenient walk for me and I will be royally bummed if the proposed deal goes through. It’s my wish that another wonderful grocery store just like the co-op simply goes in and replaces what’s there. I don’t want a bar or restaurant as I prefer to cook at home and my family would not frequent such a venue. And I agree, we don’t need more flower shops, kids clothes or toys or gift shops – I love the stores we have, but we don’t need more of the same thing. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE – another wonderful grocery store – Please!
So many good ideas here! I love the idea of a Family Practice Center--just down the street! And something functional like a deli with some sit-down food is excellent. And if the butcher could expand and we'd also have Famous Dave's site, then maybe we'd have room for a much needed pub and wine bar. This would be a convivial addition to our neighborhood and I hope we can learn exactly what the obstacles are. One thing, we should think about folks who don't have car. A nice food store with some over the counter drugs and medicine and place to get a quart of milk and some eggs on a snowy night would be great. Many good ideas! Thanks for this forum. Beth
I've read through most of the comments and I also agree in what we don't need in Linden Hills. Like many, I'd also like to see a small grocery, similar to the Green Grocer that just opened on 46th and Bryant. A bar/restaurant that balances out the other offerings would be nice too. I also vote for a Bikram Yoga studio (selfishly) and a pet grooming/supplies store.
I'm with Myrtle, Maren, Stuart, and others who absolutely love being able to walk to the co-op, regardless of the weather, to shop for small quantities and/or on short notice. Yes, the new site isn't that far away, but it is not right here in our "village." Currently, I sometimes hit the co-op multiple times in one day to grab whatever we just got in the mood for or just realized we're out of in the middle of cooking dinner. Therefore, my top choice would be another small grocery store or market with wholesome organic (or at least hormone-free) foods. I also agree with those who have noted that we do not need any more children's clothing or toy shops - we have nice ones now and don't need more.
First, what I would NOT want to see: a walgreens or cvs or other corporate chain. Even the dunn brothers is one too many in this neighborhood. I love the idea of something pet related: a doggy daycare/hotel or petfood store, or something for kids like a playplace. Or a plant store/organic nursery.... It could also be sectioned off into different little nooks: an art gallery, a bookstore, and other small shops, etc. It could, of course, be some sort of community center, with a small indoor gym, exercise room, and other community services. One more option, is, since the neighborhood is lacking in amenities for the low-income, other than the library and parks, a thrift store or other discount place would be a great way to bring in a whole new crowd of people who can't afford any of the stores around here now. That could be nice! Okay, so I've given a whole bunch of ideas: I hope it's something community-building and doesn't make the area into a strip-mall, but keeps it's character intact. Thank you so much!
I've lived in the neighborhood since 2002. When people ask me how I like living in the neighborhood, my answer is always "It would be perfect if it had a neighborhood pub."
Looks like there are a ton of people on this forum that feel similarly. I'd love to see the licensing issue explored and revisited. Not only could it benefit a new pub in the Co-Op space, but Cafe 28 as well (see Linda's excellent explanation of the licensing law above)
I've lived in LH for about 6 years now, and I, too, have always wanted a pub/bar--something with good sandwiches, maybe some music, and a TV or two to watch Twins and Vikings games. I would love to see the liquor laws loosened, even though I'm not much of a drinker. [Are there still people who object to this? Edina managed not to go down the tubes when they allowed hard liquor . . . I would even say the 50th & France area has improved with the addition of bars/restaurants that can serve more than wine and beer.]
I also like the dog-related option and the family medical practice. Other thoughts:
--bicycle/sporting goods shop that rents bikes (surprisingly hard to find in this city filled with bike trails);
--bagel shop (I miss Einstein's in Uptown . . . I know it's a chain)
With the (albeit slight) movement of one of the very practical stores in our community, it would be nice to have it replaced with another practical, every-day, every person needs-it kind of business. This would help with so many of us who like walking to the 43rd and Upton area for everyday items and would also help the other businesses that are so important to our community. Anything that is not an every-person, every-day kind of store takes so much away from our walkable neighborhood. Honestly, I can't imagine another grocery store in that space competing with the so many others in the area. A drug-store of some sort is the only thing I can think of that fits the need. Niche stores we already have. And they're wonderful. But part of the reason that they do well is because we have staple stores here too. And that's what makes the neighborhood.
I would love to see a neighborhood restaurant/pub! Some place to go with your family, or meet up with friends or your neighbors. Eat-in, take out, local beer and a good menu. It would be the perfect addition to our great neighborhood!
Thanks for setting up this site and asking for ideas!
I would suggest a nice space for a gym/spa facility. We love going to the gym when it is a nice, luxurious place to hang out - just like the Co-op was fun to hang out in, not just a grocery store. Perhaps it could be a corporate gym like Lifetime Fitness or it could house the several businesses in the neighborhood that focus on mind/body work. It could be the Linden Hills Mind Body Spa! The key is to make it a nice luxury experience!
I'm bummed that the Co-op is moving. It's not going that far, but it will be too far to walk, and that makes all the difference.
Here are a few top of mind ideas that DO NOT seem like a good fit for the space: - Riding Tack Shop - Birds 'n Stuff (second location) - Paint Your Own Pottery Superstore (these are all just money laundering fronts anyways) - Army Recruiting Center
Here's a unique suggestion: How about a neighborhood pub? Make it a good place to congregate with friends from the hood. Feature Surly on tap and a good juke box. A couple of outdoor tables for the summer would be nice. You could even allow pets inside and sell them fru froo dog treats.
My two cents: As a LH resident who lives within a 5 minute walk of the existing co-op, I am all for discouraging the high-end, cutie-pie stores from entering the co-op space.
I'm all for a back to basics approach. What I'd love to see is a small grocery. Maybe a mini-Kowalskis or an expanded Clancey's as has been offered here. I would even be fine with a drug store or convenience store(chain or otherwise), because honestly, sometimes you just need to get a gallon of milk.
A restaurant -- sure. A family friendly pub would be good in some respects, but it somehow doesn't fit with the geography. It still feels more like a special destination site (a la Wild Rumpus) rather than a community-centered place.
I do have to disagree with the idea of a yoga studio/gym/spa. Didn't we have that once and it's now a Tibet gift store? And doesn't the Linden Hills Park offer yoga? If we're going to go in for exercise, why not establish a curling club there?
I'd love to get a McDonalds. I'm pretty sure there would be just enough room to do drive through if the cars circle around the back of the building and then come out onto 43rd between Zumbro and the coop.
After they razed the old Arby's at 50th and France it has been getting harder and harder to find satisfy my junk food cravings.
I would love something that at least has some grocery items, if not a full-blown grocery. It's so great to walk to get things you use frequently- like milk, eggs, bread, cheese, fruit, and vegetables. That would be my first choice, but a second would be a casual restaurant- kid friendly.
This blog is nice but folks, let's realize that whatever happens has to make business sense 1st, the Coop property is valued (by Hennepin County) at 1.2 million dollars AND currently pays $44,000 a year in property taxes (this is 3000-4000 a month) so a serious business (or more than one) needs to be located there. Also consider that the owner or the coop property also owns the Bruley Center across the street AND the Dunn Bros location. What does this mean? I dunno but it's all public info. The coop leaving also makes available space where the Linden Hills Natural Home is located which is owned by someone else.
An Irish Pub: Cozy, quaint, Irish Music. Some place relaxed enough to take the kids during the day for a light appetizer and beer after the park, but chic enough to hang with friends at night when the babysitter comes.
OR
Something like a Green Mill. Pizza.
Please no more garden center stores. Love gardens but been there done that.
OR
A rental place for athletic stuff: canoes, kayaks, bikes, sailboats with lessons, roller blades, etc.
Thanks Steve E for that information. I know it is public but you did the homework and that it is an intimidating bottom line. A few stores inside could work. Mercado, indoor plaza?
This blog is great - it makes clear Linden Hills neighbors like each other, and want to play together. Me too - and I'm in Fulton :)
I'm also struck with a few questions:
Would a Farmer's Market help - or a coop annex?
Would a milk cooler in Dunn Bros do the trick?
Should the hardstore stock a better selection of Tylenol and other over the counters? (we don't have that now)
Wondering what basics are we losing/wanting and what are the practical alternatives to keeping them.
I've talked with the owner and he's been looking for someone that knows how to run a market, maybe like the mid-town global market. If anyone knows someone with these skills they should contact him. A market like that would be great here. His e-mail is here on the blog. Thanks for the blog!
Anonymous said... "I'd love to get a McDonalds. I'm pretty sure there would be just enough room to do drive through if the cars circle around the back of the building"
You and my 10 year old might be the only people in the neighborhood that would want a McDonald's. FYI. City of Minneapolis do not allow drive-thrus.
I still have memories of those tall-backed wooden booths, and the short fat parmesan cheese shakers from Lake Harriet Pizza. That, and the (what seemed to be) foot tall soft serve ice cream cones from Tom Thumb. We've obviously got ice cream covered in Linden Hills.. but I guess no real pizza place to speak of.
I'm not going to offer a ton of new insight - I don't really want a Tom Thumb type store back there, but I also don't really want to see a wine bar type place go in either. I would love if Rice Paper and Cafe 28 could get more business vs. opening another restaurant right there. I think the idea of a co-op "outlet" is awesome - like a year-round indoor farmers market. Who knows. Thanks for opening up the options Dave!
I am also a fan for a practical type business. I would love to see a smaller grocery store or drug store, someplace I could go to get the necessities. Another idea I like is a pet supply store, like a Chuck and Don's type place. I'm also a fan of a local pub, someplace that you can go for a quick bite to eat or a good drink.
I fully agree - that: For those of us who live in the neighborhood and walk the neighborhood, to the library, to the park, the move of the co-op is a terrible loss. It is the one "practical" spot.
I would favor any local business that is locally owned. I would patronize a Wine Bar with live music (perhaps from the Linden Hills House of Music), or a mini drug store or Lund's outlet.
Living a half a block from the Co-op has spoiled me. I will grieve when it moves! I have talked with the guys at Clancy's and they have asked to give a list of essentials they can keep on hand. They don't have a ton of space, but I think that may be helpful. Plus, it supports another local business. (Their scallops are amazing!)
I, also, like the idea of a neighborhood bar/cafe. Has anyone talked with the owners of the Edina/Highland/Longfellow Grills? I just shot an email to Dave Burley, one of the owners I know. Perhaps he would be interested.
I have lived in the neighborhood for years and although many of you believe that the co op was a great place to grocery shop, how about a grocery or drug store that the average person can really afford With the economy the way that it is I'm sure that many of us are trying to save a buck! The co-op was not a place that I would shop on a daily basis because it is way too expensive. Let's get realisitic folks. I suppose I should consider the socio economics of the people in the neighborhood but I think we would all benefit from a non-specialty type shop! A place that we can actually shop on a day to day basis for things that we need!
I've lived within two blocks of this area for over 60 years. I worked for Don at Hawkinsons grocery, bought sodas at the drug store where Twigs is today. I bought gas from Frank at the Pure station where Famous Daves sits. I love the Co-op, but will work out a way to continue to support it. Change has been the norm.
My vote is for a deli sytle restaurant with indoor and outdoor seating. Fresh salads, sandwiches, breakfast etc. The kind of place that would be an affordable family friendly place to go for a meal or for a healthy take out alternative.
I am so glad to see that we are not the only family in the neighborhood that wants basics, not luxury items, available to us in walking distance. I heard a person from out of town say, laughing, that he wanted to buy a candy bar, a bottle of Coke, and a pack of cigarettes, all available in his equally upscale neighborhood in another city, and found only bean sprouts, $50 socks, and wind chimes. (I suppose his three items would be considered luxury too. . . . I just would like to get milk and bread without driving). So yes, please, please, a convenience store.
Ditto to all the posts requesting a casual place to meet friends for drink. A locally owned pub with some ambiance would be perfect... like an irish pub or even something like Bulldog. Something that is family friendly during the day because it serves casual food and then catered more to adults at night. Chatterbox just doesn't cut it as the local hangout.
Ditto also to all the posts that said no more flower shops, toy stores, or gift stores.
As a mom of 3 young kids planning to raise my family in LH for many years.. we need more healthy food options for a quick bite after running the lake, playing at the park. etc. Everyone at the lake could stop in for a quick snack, smoothie, salad, lox & bagel, sushi, etc. Something like Common Roots cafe on 25th & Lyndale. Currently, besides the co-op, we have bread, muffins and more bread. Other great ideas: *neighborhood restaurant like Busters on 28th. *dog groomer *Brasa
I think a neighborhood gathering place (pizza/deli/pub) would be great. Family-friendly, good food. The area could definitely support another quality dining establishment...maybe with darts/pool tables/games to play while hanging out. Like the Chatterbox, but with good food and actual atmosphere.
A local pharmacy would never make it - Burch Pharmacy in Kenwood (a long-time, ind. business) has just closed down b/c they can't compete on Rx prices with Walgreens (etc).
And please lets not use that huge space for dog supplies/grooming!
Love that people are interested in some sort of pub. Maybe one that includes some outdoor seating? What if we got SURLY beer company to open a small pub or mini brewery? Super popular. Something like that. I think that residents would be ok with it if it wasn't a "late night" place.
Unfortunately there isn't enough foot traffic to sustain a convenience-focused retail operation (is why the Coop moved), unless you want it to sell gas as well.
A neighborhood pub/bistro is the way to go. Think Brits, Local, Busters, etc.
If not this, plan for another high-end nick nack destination....
Great blog, although I am confused about the purpose because presumably the owner of the property will decide what goes there next ... ?
Any way, liquor laws can absolutely be changed. We lived behind Cafe Maude when it opened and Betsy Hodges got the State legislature to insert an amendment to state law exempting that specific address from liquor restrictions ... so surely she could do the same for Linden Hills? Might require a campaign donation or fundraiser but rest assured it is possible. ;-)
A pub would be an absolutely hit and add greatly to the neighborhood, especially if we could somehow get support from Surly and/or the Haugs.
Plus, if it's not a pub I shudder to think what else LH will come up with: Al Franken satellite office, kumbaya center, miniature Tibetan tree store, or an organic fair-trade nonviolent kid's clothing store. That McDonald's is sounding better and better ...
I don't want a McDonalds unless they take Happy Meals off the menu for our location since those encourage bad life choices for the children and with this next choice we really really have to think about the children.
I think this is a great opportunity to make our neighborhood more diverse. What about getting a community services organization to take this location that helps the homeless and re-trains the unemployed or recovering addicts for new career opportunity? We could take a stand and enable the change we can believe in through creating an open minded, diverse community. Change begins at home.
Being that the new coop location will be 2 blocks from me, I don't want a grocery. We would love a pub or even something less bar-like similar to Edina Grill. Either way offer a nice outdoor patio. This would be perfect for reading after the library visits.
I'd like to see a grocery store or a drug store or a upscale deli that serves wine and beer. I would prefer not to have a bar in that location due to the noise it would bring to the neighborhood.
I will echo many of the comments here: Linden Hills probably does not need more of what it already has and maybe should start looking towards expanding its scope, or at least bring back the oldies (e.g. Lake Harriet Pizza).
A pub/wine bar/brewpub has been a common suggestion here that should not be ignored. A serious look should be taken at changing the alcohol licensing for the neighborhood, a change that would also benefit the existing fine establishments.Take a look at the 48th & Chicago Ave neighborhood where Town Hall is planning to open a second location this fall. I guarantee I will be taking the short trip over to that neighborhood very often to take advantage. It is no secret that there has been an overwhelming interest in microbrews and brewpubs in the last few years which can be seen by the startup of many local breweries in the Twin Cities and greater metro area. I can not think of a better next addition to the neighborhood than having our own Linden Hills brewpub with locally brewed beer and good food (e.g. Town Hall, Barley John's, Great Waters, Fitger's Brewhouse). We even have local brewers in our neighborhood who would surely be supportive of this and, perhaps, willing to take their garage operations to a larger scale. It would be great to have a much more local place rather than always relying on 44th & France or 50th & France for local hangouts.
A small grocery/convenience store is what this Vincent Ave residence and mom needs. Driving or walking to the new coop is not appealing (not pedestrian friendly and too far). I would prefer to continue to walk and purchase the items like milk, fruit, daily cravings. Long term a local grocer seems like a good fit. The in and out of clothing, boutique stores are for those who don't live in Linden Hills.
I was told some time ago by a city planner that the nbr 1 predictor of a successful community is a good grocery store. In my case it is what you can get to by walking. So, I vote for another Market!
I agree, thanks Dave for making this site available to all of us. I love shopping at Kowalski's Markets. I would love if one was in our neighborhood. What does everyone else think?
Rather than host an open forum for the neighborhood to gather and discuss new business options for this space, this blog will intend to serve that purpose in an ongoing manner.
No meetings to attend (or miss), no worry about expressing your ideas as you can remain anonymous or choose to use your name. You can follow the comments and take the time needed to think broadly and critically about what is being said and you can discuss with each other as well! So let your neighbors know about this.
Lastly, where you see the commentators name highlighted, you can click on it and view their personal profile (if they have one). Maybe here's a chance to get to know some new neighbors.
Thanks for participating and if you wish to contact me I'm at:
55410renew@gmail.com
Thanks again!
Dave Luger
If you'd like to see some local photos you can go to:
105 comments:
Although I am wounded by the loss of the Co-op, I’m trying to think positively and imagine new neighborhood-friendly businesses here on 43rd Street. Many thanks to Dave Luger for making this blog site available for community input. The gesture goes a long way toward alleviating apprehensions and turning a sense of loss into a glimmer of hope.
Richard Carr
W. 43rd St.
I would like to see a pet related business in Linden Hills. There are so many dogs in the area, but no place to shop for them or get them groomed.
A family practice clinic would greatly enhance the livability of our community. Such a professional service business would also tend to be a longer term and more stable tenant than traditional retail. (I just saw a recent speech by Paul Krugman where he thinks we may be beginning a US version of Japan's lost decade....)
It would still be soooo nice to be able to walk to a small grocery/convenience store. While I appreciate the fine shops and restaurants in the village, they are primarily a destination for non-residents. The lack of practical, everyday services (e.g. drug store, Tom Thumb) has been one of the few negative changes in the area since we moved here in '91. A grocery store might not be exotic, but it would improve the quality of life for locals.
@Richard Carr
"Although I am wounded at the loss of the Co-op..."
This statement leaves me both perplexed and reminiscent of Bernini's famous statue, The Ecstasy of St Teresa. Bernini was certainly a master but most critics agree 'Ecstasy' is high theater encased in marble. How does this relate to your comment?
Surely you know the co-op is planning to move less than a mile away from it's current location. I just can't understand how anyone fragile enough to be 'wounded' by such a "loss" manages to function despite genuine tragedies such as the Haitian earthquake.
As Teresa was innocent of worldly passion, I am innocent of rhetorical device. Perhaps we should meet for coffee and you can explain it to me. (Please leave your arrows at home, though.)
Back to the Co-op....I'm delighted they have an opportunity to expand and prosper while staying in our community. This expansion actually increases the net square footage of productive commercial real estate in our city and in Linden Hills. Not a bad thing, if you think about it.
In the short time since this blog started there are already several excellent suggestions for businesses that would potentially enhance and enliven the 43rd/Upton business district for existing businesses and Linden Hills residents.
All teasing aside, this has the potential to be a very winning opportunity for the Co-op, the community, Dave Luger, the business district, and whatever new business joins us at 2813 West 43rd Street.
I too am very sad to see the co-op moving down the street. It is a great move for them, but it is a huge loss. I would favor any local business that is locally owned. I did like the idea of a dog related business. My dog would love to go there and get treats :)
Hmm hard to say what would likely flourish there. Personally I would like a drug store, new book store (as opposed to a used book store), or a yoga studio, but there ARE a good number of these types of establishments not far away.
I too will miss the LH Co-op being there, but I do think the larger building and option to buy make the new location on 44th street a good idea.
I'm a co-op member, and also disheartened by the planned move. Presently, I can walk to the co-op, where as with the move it will change the way I shop. I often pick up only what I'll eat that day, often shopping before the meal. I wonder if the directors who orchestrated this change in venue considered foot traffic vs. other means by which customers arrive at the co-op. 44th and France has very little foot traffic and a history of a failed grocery store AND a failed deli @ the liquor store.
I would favor a socially responsible convenience store with a lunch counter or fast food outlet.
By the way, Teresa, the situation in Haiti has nothing to do with the location of the Co-op. (True, true and unrelated). A person can be wounded by a personal slight or an off-hand comment. Not everything that affects us is high drama or on an International scale.
hi
it would be amazing to have a bikram yoga studio there! That's rather selfish of me since I'm an addict of this style of yoga. Do we need an awesome daycare facility, montessori? Love the pet grooming idea. There are tons of animal lovers in the neighborhood. I loved having the drug store/convenience store back in the day (where Dunn Bros is now) but it failed. Maybe an upscale deli for takeout.
How about a Fresh And Natural Foods?
Wine Bar with pool tables? I like the Tom Thumb idea. mini drug store, Lund's outlet or mini store. A burger place like Buster's on 28th, a bakery,
For those of us who live in the neighborhood and walk the neighborhood, to the library, to the park, the move of the co-op is a terrible loss. It is the one "practical" spot. The other shops are lovely and I can buy gifts and order flowers. I even get my hair cut and brows waxed in the 'hood. But what makes it so darn convenient is that I can get "milk and eggs" or "bananas and Cheerios" or "a bagette and (string or brie!) cheese" and not have to get in my car should I so choose. In this respect, it is a loss. My kid's scooter to the co-op for a gallon of milk or some apples. They buy healthy snacks while they are with friends. THEY are going to miss the co-op. I must add that "bigger isn't always better", but that's for the board of the co-op to deal with.
I would like to be able to buy stamps somewhere though! ;)
How about "Guse's Green Grocery Too"! It doesn't have to be the co-op, but I don't want a Tom Thumb either! Too expensive for the quality of what you get. Atleast I'm paying for good whole food now, not processed stuff.
I've always loved the fact that if there's a blizzard outside and my car is buried under 2 feet of snow/won't start, I can walk down and get milk and dog food. I would hope beyond hope that there's some way the co-op would stay (I don't need more space/more offerings--the carefully edited selection is one of the things I love about the store,) but if it absolutely must move, some things to consider:
What we don't need:
--Another kids' clothing/toy store
--Another hair salon
--Another garden/home store
What we do need:
--A bookstore (new or used)
--A casual place to eat dinner (i.e. pizza or something like Broders' deli)
--A nice, low-key, family-friendly pub?
--A local, independent pharmacy (i.e. Olsen Brothers or Clancey's)
P.S. Let's try to keep it a local business rather than a national chain if we can.
There are a few options that would certainly diversify and improve the Linden Hills community. For instance:
1) A global food market. The space has already proven itself capable of supporting a grocery store, and there seems to be no reason why a market featuring/serving ethnic food couldn't make it work in such a great, open to new things, neighborhood.
2) An expanded deli style restaurant. For example, a larger version of Broder's Deli, a New York Jewish-style delicatessen, or even a pizza shop.
3) A local pharmacy, which would provide a great alternative to Walgreens or CVS - and would certainly be well supported by the locals!
4) A Cheepo style record/cd/book store. There are plenty of stores in Linden Hills great for young children--but where to shop for our teenagers?
5) A soda fountain/pizza/music venue for people to hang out.
Choices to avoid:
1) We don't need another flower/gardening store!
2) We don't need another toy store!
3) We don't, don't, don't need another kid's clothing store!
4) We don't need another gift shop (i.e Bibelot) store!
We have great shops in all of these categories already. The last thing Linden Hills needs is more competition for these stores. Instead it would be wonderful if the neighborhood could replace the co-op with a business that fits a unique niche.
As others have mentioned, the fact that the co-op is moving a mile away isn't fine for those of us who live in the opposite direction - it'll be too far for me and my kids to walk (which we do, even in the winter). I'm planning on selling my shares back when it moves.
I second suggestions for another deli/convenience store. The co-op has been very successful - another owner can certainly do the same. An establishment that draws patrons daily will also benefit the other businesses in the area.
A bar. :)
I realize that this may offend some of the teetotalers in the hood, but I remember that neighborhood meeting we held when Lake Harriet Pizza wanted a beer and wine license and people were up in arms thinking it would lead to crime, prostitution and organized gambling in LH.
That is ancient history, and now I am convinced that we could use a good old-fashioned neighborhood pub. A place where one could stop by after work, share a beer and conversation. After all, we already do this at our neighborhood get-togethers.
My thinking is something like what one might see up north, vintage, with an antique juke box and a vintage Hamm's sign (purchased on e-bay!). I could even see a mounted Muskie on the wall. It would also be great to be able to walk home, instead of driving.
Well, that's my two cents worth....
Rod
I believe it is essential to have an "everyday use" or practical type of business in this spot. Many of the stores at the 43rd and Upton node are geared toward specialty shoppers and while I do use these stores, I think the node would be most enhanced by a business that draws the same customers one to two times a week. A convenience/market/drug store of some type would provide this.Or perhaps a neighborhood pub and wine bar, the neighborhood is in sore need of evening and late night entertainment and dining opportunities.If multiple tenant space is being considered we have plenty of great examples in the city, Midtown Global market comes to mind. I think it is also important to keep in mind the entire node is experiencing change as the Famous Daves location is being considered for redevelopment. I think it is important that we as a neighbors take this opportunity to voice our input in the real change that is taking place (whether we like it or not) in this area. We have the option to move forward, or try to maintain the status quo. Thanks for creating this opportunity for input.
Caleb Osmundson
42nd and France
I agree that we need a casual place to meet our friends in the node for a glass of wine or a beer.
Another interesting development would be the look of the space. Is there any chance that a mural could be painted on the exterior walls--perhaps of Lake Harriet or of a grove of Linden trees?
Friendly Neighborhood PUB
Definately a Neighborhood Pub is in order. One that caters to local foot traffic, has good happy hour specials and serves a good reuben sandwich.
Great idea to solicit advice from neighborhood residents. Thanks for asking!
Each time a business closes around 43rd & Upton, I pray that it's not replaced by another boutique store, and those prayers have for the most part gone unanswered.
I'd love to see a convenience store, a deli, a wine shop, a burger bar in the co-op space -- small businesses that would attract a lot of walk-up business. I miss the cheap eats of the Mekong Cafe!
How about a smaller version of Cossetta's? Now, I'm dreaming. . .
I like the bar idea.. and the pet store is also a great option. I hate to have to drive to get my pet groomed and to pick up food.
Hi Folks, Linda Haug here. Owner Cafe Twenty Eight and 16 year resident of Linden Hills. I too would love to see a pub, wine bar, brew pub in that space. In Linden Hills we operate under what is known as a charter wine license, the most restrictive license given. First all beverage alcohol must be accompanied by the purchase of food. In fact a food order should be taken before a drink order. You cannot design your space with a bar with barstools, no amplified music; you must sell 70% of your sales in food. No hard liquor. This means you couldn't just drop in for a beer without food so the casual nature is somewhat limited. I feel that it would difficult to create the right "pub" environment with the current restrictions. From my understanding there are three ways to change the licensing restrictions that we have in Linden Hill, all 13 members of the city council must approve a change or a law passed (like Parasole did for the Maude space before Maude took it) or a city wide referendum. If I am mistaken in anything I have written here please let me know. Thanks Dave & Georgie for hosting this forum.
Hi Linda and to others,
This is Dave Luger. Given these like-minded comments I tried to find out more about this too. But so far I'm confused. If Betsy (our councilperson) is following this blog, could you (she) please explain how our Node can be less restrictive? How would we go about it? I will add that on the street, I get this request more that any other business idea. Thanks!
FYI. The above deleted comment was mine due to a misspelling. Dave Luger
How about a "genius bar" pub with a wait staff that can help visitors with smart phones, lap tops, blogging, digital photo management, face book posting, and tweeting?
Randy Fielding
If there is a chance of getting the liquor laws changed (maybe limiting amount served per customer), I think that would be great. Maybe a solution to the 3 most popular suggestions could be if Zumbro would be willing to be open in the evenings for wine/beer/appetizers/pizzas/etc. In the old Co-op could be a store with all our everyday grocery needs, maybe a nice deli/lunch counter, and that carries dog food/treats/toys/etc.
Here is another vote for a family-friendly neighborhood pub with outdoor patio tables, Surly on tap, high-end bar food with local meats and veggies, tapas style appetizers, decent breakfasts on weekends, a good lunch menu, small acoustic shows or community open stage nights, big wood tables where people can work or meet, comfortable chairs, and free wifi. I can dream.
p.s. While we are changing the law to allow this, we should also change the ridiculous ban on street food vendors/trucks.
My family would fully support a locally-owned mom & pop convenience store and/or pharmacy that takes the space! Do we know what is going into the Famous Dave's space yet? I was thinking it might be replaced with a restaurant/bar, in which case we may not need that option in the co-op spot. Thanks for this forum!
As the Coop will be moving out of walking distance for me, I would be delighted if our friendly Linden Hills Butchery and Deli would also feel the need to expand and would find the funds to move into the Coop's spot. If they could add over-the-counter drugstore items as well as fresh vegetables it would be even better.
Margrit Wakefield
Yes! And serve wine & Beer.
Ananymous asked on January 31 "what's going to happen to the Famous Dave's space?". Please enlighten me. It's one of our family's favorite hangouts in the neighborhood. Don't tell me we are going to lose that one, too.
I am with Myrtle on what we don't need more of -- please no more garden shops or children's toy/clothing shops;) They're great, but don't need further competition. A couple ideas:
1. Tastefully done Irish Pub, similar to what Excelsior has in Jake O'Connor's (www.JakeOConnors.com). A place to get some Irish Stew during the day and listen to a trio and drink a glass of wine by night. Sounds like laws would need to change for this, and it sounds like they should.
2. One of the best parts about our 'hood is the hardware store because its charming and functional. The coop space seems large enough for a mom and pop drug/convienece store and dog store/self doggie wash shop. With 2 businesses there it probably be more financially sustaining for the owners.
3. I don't know if this would work, but a small one-screen movie pub theater (have a slice of pizza, glass of wine and see a movie).
I didn't know Famous Dave's was leaving too?! I will have to read up on that. Both spots have tons of parking (maybe we take part one of the lots and create a small park with lawn bowling, outdoor chess/checkers tables, horeshoes, and giant outdoor scrabble).
Thanks coop for opening this up to the neighborhood to discuss and we look forward to seeing your new home take form down the street!
I also vote for a family friendly pub and/or a deli that serves breakfast as well. Or, a catch all restaurant similar to the Edina grill would be great too.
I would love to see a neighborhood bar/restaurant like Cafe Maude on Penn avenue. Or the new King area place on 46th and Bryant, across from Cafe Ena. A real gathering spot that is unlike Famous Dave's or Cafe 28. I love the Cafe but think a classy bar would be a nice addition. I agree, no more gift stores, coffee shops, kids places. I would love a convenience store too, I always missed the Tom Thumb. I don't think that makes it there, however. Looking forward to the change, and happy the co-op isn't going far. We can all still get there!
Libby
I think Linden Hills would be a great home for the non-profit organization run by C. Allen Thompson called the Imagine Foundation, which is a foundtion for victims of religious violence. Minneapolis would be a great home for such an organization.
I too would love to see a classy bar with real alcohol and a great mixologist! A bar with a kitchen that makes tapas or something like that. Though I have no objection to the wine/beer idea, those of us who are allergic to wine simply can not go there.
I say we should change the law to allow liquor in our neighborhood.
In addition, the new proposed location of the coop is still within walking distanc.
I love the bar/wine/food idea. Something like Cafe Maude which has great food, drinks and music and has been a great improvement to it's area as well. It would be so nice to be able to have little happy hour app. or light dinner with locally grown foods and a cocktail and then walk down to the lake in the warm months.
I agree that a beer/wine/food place would be great there. Something like Cafe Maude with great food, full bar and great music. I like the idea of being able to have an app. or dinner, a couple drinks and then walk down to the lake on warm nights.
An Irish pub or nice dining establishment with full bar
Sounds like a lot of folks want a "hang-out-spot" with a liquor license. A place to meet friends or take your family out after working all day.
I'm all for this type of business although we know there are restrictions (and for good reason) in the neighborhood.
Whatever goes in there must be a business model that can pull a profit and will stick around for a long while.
Although I’d love a small niche-type shop, those businesses only draw certain types of customers - for example, dog owners who are willing to buy expensive doggie treats and live in the neighborhood.
Furthermore, I would love to see a pharmacy/gift shop (like what used to be where Dunn Bros is now) but who would support it? It would have a relatively small and loyal customer base, those who live very close by, support local businesses, and love the convenience. But why would someone from a mile or more away choose to go to a LH drug store vs. Walgreens, or for that matter, Cub, Target or Costco on their way home from work? Can an independent store survive with such a customer base?
In today's world, I don’t' see many businesses surviving on the customers who live close enough to walk AND chose to support their local businesses. The business needs to be interesting and different enough that people will choose it over their many options in the 5 mile-radius area. (I’d drive all the way over to WA Frost in St. Paul because it’s unique and “worth it”)
Bayer Hardware has figured out a business model that is working and we’re lucky to have them (and I hope we all buy ALL our hardware purchases there and not just the nickel/dime ones). I know the neighborhood would really grieve if they were gone!
That’s my 2-cents worth. Congratulations to the COOP!
How about a food co-op.
For those who are aggrieved by the move of the Linden Hills Co-op out of Linden Hills, I'd like to see us get together and start another Co-op that serves Linden Hills rather than the vehicle traffic that travels down France Avenue. Those of us who do shop there almost every day, who walk or bike (or drive), and who'd like fresh local produce, meats, grains and nuts, etc.
I'd like to see a convenience store or drug store. Linden Hills needs a local place where you can buy basic groceries.
Also, the liquor laws sound ridiculous...loosening them a bit would be nice.
I am very sad to see the co-op leave "downtown" Linden Hills. The health of our neighborhood is very much dependent on the success of this business node, and I believe all the businesses are somewhat dependent on each other as well.
That said, I would love to see another small grocery store, but please, not another Tom Thumb! A small bar/pub, a place "where everybody knows your name" would also be fabulous. I understand there would need to be some changes regarding the liquor licensing restrictions, but I don't think it would require a unanimous vote of the city council. I believe it would have to go through a couple of committees and then need only a majority of votes on the council. At any rate, you can do just about anything with enough neighborhood support and political will, and judging from the comments on this forum we seem to share a lot of similar values and ideas about what we would like to see in this space in the future. Thanks to Dave Luger for creating this forum where we can share ideas about the future of our neighborhood. Please consider all this when deciding what will go into this space, because it's success depends on it!
I think it would be awesome if there was an opportunity for a fishing supplies store were to open in this location.
I think the move is great for the Co-op, allowing it to be able to expand what it can offer and support more local farmers and vendors.
In it's place I would like to see a locally owned, environmentally forward store. Some ideas:
Convenience store or drug store
An expanded natural home store that doesn't step on the hardware store's toes
A dance or local art studio for all ages
A cafe latte style eating establishment with late closing hours
Or maybe a x-country ski, rollerblade, etc. store or rental place.
Anything but Patina or more precious kiddie stores. Linden Hills is fast becoming a cutsie destination for suburban moms with time to kill rather than a genuine neighborhood. Please, please put in a grocery or drugstore.
My vote is for a small grocery store. I moved into the area within the last year and one of the 'perks' of Linden Hills was the co-op. I'm bummed that I didn't do my homework re: the co-op move. This is a delightful area of town.
I would love to see a drug/grocery store that offers basics, but also has a cool, old style soda fountain with cozy booths for lunch or after-school gatherings.
But, I have to admit, a great neighborhood pub would be so fun... Maybe in the style of a European tobac. Perhaps there is room for both...
Change is good. A few years from now we will wonder what all the fuss was about!
As a resident of Linden Hills for the past 23 years we have seen business' come and go.
One of the reasons that keeps us here is the feeling of an old time neighborhood with all it's character and charm.
We were saddened when we lost the drug store, Lake Harriet Pizza, the dance studio, the old time butcher, and the gas station (where Famous Dave's is now) to a chain coffee shop, BBQ and upscale butcher to name a few.
We are concerned about the proposed development idea of the Famous Dave's spot with retail and condo's in one space. Please keep in mind that the area of 43rd and Upton has a hard time supporting the weekend traffic that brings in people from the surrounding suburbs. To add a development of such would bring in more traffic and it would take away from that charm of the neighborhood that we all love.
Taking the Co-op space and limiting it to just a dog grooming/retail space would do nothing for many of us.
We love Zumbro (wish it was open in the evening) Cafe 28 and Famous Dave's. But what about bringing Lake Harriet Pizza back home? A place for the locals to have as their own, to meet neighbors of old and new and maybe for our kids to have to bring a date too and not brake the bank?
I’ve read all the entries on this blog – here’s my 2 cents: Having the coop at its current location adds so much joy to my life. On my regular (near daily) walk to the business district I sometimes pinch myself just to be sure I’m awake and not dreaming that this fantasy land, a.k.a. the Peoples Republic of Linden Hills, with its haven of convenient, fun and interesting shops, is reality and not a dream. I LOVE the co-op in its current location – I can WALK and pick up whatever I need; I love the wholesomeness and freshness of the food, I love the focus on locally grown food, I love the selection, I LOVE it that I can buy in small quantities and/or in bulk. The new co-op location will not be a convenient walk for me and I will be royally bummed if the proposed deal goes through. It’s my wish that another wonderful grocery store just like the co-op simply goes in and replaces what’s there. I don’t want a bar or restaurant as I prefer to cook at home and my family would not frequent such a venue. And I agree, we don’t need more flower shops, kids clothes or toys or gift shops – I love the stores we have, but we don’t need more of the same thing. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE – another wonderful grocery store – Please!
I would be thrilled to see a neighbourhood pub or venue similar to Maude.
What is needed is restaurant eg
Country Buffet, Panera
Thanks Dave
So many good ideas here! I love the idea of a Family Practice Center--just down the street! And something functional like a deli with some sit-down food is excellent. And if the butcher could expand and we'd also have Famous Dave's site, then maybe we'd have room for a much needed pub and wine bar. This would be a convivial addition to our neighborhood and I hope we can learn exactly what the obstacles are. One thing, we should think about folks who don't have car. A nice food store with some over the counter drugs and medicine and place to get a quart of milk and some eggs on a snowy night would be great. Many good ideas!
Thanks for this forum. Beth
I've read through most of the comments and I also agree in what we don't need in Linden Hills. Like many, I'd also like to see a small grocery, similar to the Green Grocer that just opened on 46th and Bryant. A bar/restaurant that balances out the other offerings would be nice too. I also vote for a Bikram Yoga studio (selfishly) and a pet grooming/supplies store.
Trader Joe's!
Maybe Stuart Woodman would like to use this space to recreate the magic of Heidi's...
I would like to see a family-friendly neighborhood pub. I'm thinking fresh, local and organic, and interesting menu that changes.
Unfortunately we're losing Rice Paper. The menus at Cafe 28 and Dave's almost never change. We need something that more intersting.
What we don't need is:
-garden store
-kids clothes store
-toy store
-flower store
-salon
-gift shop
I'm with Myrtle, Maren, Stuart, and others who absolutely love being able to walk to the co-op, regardless of the weather, to shop for small quantities and/or on short notice. Yes, the new site isn't that far away, but it is not right here in our "village." Currently, I sometimes hit the co-op multiple times in one day to grab whatever we just got in the mood for or just realized we're out of in the middle of cooking dinner. Therefore, my top choice would be another small grocery store or market with wholesome organic (or at least hormone-free) foods. I also agree with those who have noted that we do not need any more children's clothing or toy shops - we have nice ones now and don't need more.
First, what I would NOT want to see: a walgreens or cvs or other corporate chain. Even the dunn brothers is one too many in this neighborhood. I love the idea of something pet related: a doggy daycare/hotel or petfood store, or something for kids like a playplace. Or a plant store/organic nursery.... It could also be sectioned off into different little nooks: an art gallery, a bookstore, and other small shops, etc. It could, of course, be some sort of community center, with a small indoor gym, exercise room, and other community services. One more option, is, since the neighborhood is lacking in amenities for the low-income, other than the library and parks, a thrift store or other discount place would be a great way to bring in a whole new crowd of people who can't afford any of the stores around here now. That could be nice! Okay, so I've given a whole bunch of ideas: I hope it's something community-building and doesn't make the area into a strip-mall, but keeps it's character intact. Thank you so much!
I am with David. I like the dog related business. As a owner of 2 dogs, i hate having to drive 15 minutes!!
I've lived in the neighborhood since 2002. When people ask me how I like living in the neighborhood, my answer is always "It would be perfect if it had a neighborhood pub."
Looks like there are a ton of people on this forum that feel similarly. I'd love to see the licensing issue explored and revisited. Not only could it benefit a new pub in the Co-Op space, but Cafe 28 as well (see Linda's excellent explanation of the licensing law above)
I've lived in LH for about 6 years now, and I, too, have always wanted a pub/bar--something with good sandwiches, maybe some music, and a TV or two to watch Twins and Vikings games. I would love to see the liquor laws loosened, even though I'm not much of a drinker. [Are there still people who object to this? Edina managed not to go down the tubes when they allowed hard liquor . . . I would even say the 50th & France area has improved with the addition of bars/restaurants that can serve more than wine and beer.]
I also like the dog-related option and the family medical practice. Other thoughts:
--bicycle/sporting goods shop that rents bikes (surprisingly hard to find in this city filled with bike trails);
--bagel shop (I miss Einstein's in Uptown . . . I know it's a chain)
--pizza place
With the (albeit slight) movement of one of the very practical stores in our community, it would be nice to have it replaced with another practical, every-day, every person needs-it kind of business. This would help with so many of us who like walking to the 43rd and Upton area for everyday items and would also help the other businesses that are so important to our community. Anything that is not an every-person, every-day kind of store takes so much away from our walkable neighborhood.
Honestly, I can't imagine another grocery store in that space competing with the so many others in the area. A drug-store of some sort is the only thing I can think of that fits the need.
Niche stores we already have. And they're wonderful. But part of the reason that they do well is because we have staple stores here too. And that's what makes the neighborhood.
I would love to see a neighborhood restaurant/pub! Some place to go with your family, or meet up with friends or your neighbors. Eat-in, take out, local beer and a good menu. It would be the perfect addition to our great neighborhood!
Thanks for setting up this site and asking for ideas!
I would suggest a nice space for a gym/spa facility. We love going to the gym when it is a nice, luxurious place to hang out - just like the Co-op was fun to hang out in, not just a grocery store. Perhaps it could be a corporate gym like Lifetime Fitness or it could house the several businesses in the neighborhood that focus on mind/body work. It could be the Linden Hills Mind Body Spa! The key is to make it a nice luxury experience!
Wine bar please. Or a lounge with soft live music like jazz or acoustic guitar.
I'm bummed that the Co-op is moving. It's not going that far, but it will be too far to walk, and that makes all the difference.
Here are a few top of mind ideas that DO NOT seem like a good fit for the space:
- Riding Tack Shop
- Birds 'n Stuff (second location)
- Paint Your Own Pottery Superstore (these are all just money laundering fronts anyways)
- Army Recruiting Center
Here's a unique suggestion: How about a neighborhood pub? Make it a good place to congregate with friends from the hood. Feature Surly on tap and a good juke box. A couple of outdoor tables for the summer would be nice. You could even allow pets inside and sell them fru froo dog treats.
If you build it, they will come
My two cents:
As a LH resident who lives within a 5 minute walk of the existing co-op, I am all for discouraging the high-end, cutie-pie stores from entering the co-op space.
I'm all for a back to basics approach. What I'd love to see is a small grocery. Maybe a mini-Kowalskis or an expanded Clancey's as has been offered here. I would even be fine with a drug store or convenience store(chain or otherwise), because honestly, sometimes you just need to get a gallon of milk.
A restaurant -- sure. A family friendly pub would be good in some respects, but it somehow doesn't fit with the geography. It still feels more like a special destination site (a la Wild Rumpus) rather than a community-centered place.
I do have to disagree with the idea of a yoga studio/gym/spa. Didn't we have that once and it's now a Tibet gift store? And doesn't the Linden Hills Park offer yoga? If we're going to go in for exercise, why not establish a curling club there?
How about a brewpub/curling place?
I'd love to get a McDonalds. I'm pretty sure there would be just enough room to do drive through if the cars circle around the back of the building and then come out onto 43rd between Zumbro and the coop.
After they razed the old Arby's at 50th and France it has been getting harder and harder to find satisfy my junk food cravings.
I would love something that at least has some grocery items, if not a full-blown grocery. It's so great to walk to get things you use frequently- like milk, eggs, bread, cheese, fruit, and vegetables. That would be my first choice, but a second would be a casual restaurant- kid friendly.
This blog is nice but folks, let's realize that whatever happens has to make business sense 1st, the Coop property is valued (by Hennepin County) at 1.2 million dollars AND currently pays $44,000 a year in property taxes (this is 3000-4000 a month) so a serious business (or more than one) needs to be located there. Also consider that the owner or the coop property also owns the Bruley Center across the street AND the Dunn Bros location. What does this mean? I dunno but it's all public info. The coop leaving also makes available space where the Linden Hills Natural Home is located which is owned by someone else.
An Irish Pub: Cozy, quaint, Irish Music. Some place relaxed enough to take the kids during the day for a light appetizer and beer after the park, but chic enough to hang with friends at night when the babysitter comes.
OR
Something like a Green Mill. Pizza.
Please no more garden center stores. Love gardens but been there done that.
OR
A rental place for athletic stuff: canoes, kayaks, bikes, sailboats with lessons, roller blades, etc.
Thanks Steve E for that information. I know it is public but you did the homework and that it is an intimidating bottom line.
A few stores inside could work. Mercado, indoor plaza?
This blog is great - it makes clear Linden Hills neighbors like each other, and want to play together. Me too - and I'm in Fulton :)
I'm also struck with a few questions:
Would a Farmer's Market help - or a coop annex?
Would a milk cooler in Dunn Bros do the trick?
Should the hardstore stock a better selection of Tylenol and other over the counters? (we don't have that now)
Wondering what basics are we losing/wanting and what are the practical alternatives to keeping them.
I've talked with the owner and he's been looking for someone that knows how to run a market, maybe like the mid-town global market. If anyone knows someone with these skills they should contact him. A market like that would be great here. His e-mail is here on the blog. Thanks for the blog!
Anonymous said...
"I'd love to get a McDonalds. I'm pretty sure there would be just enough room to do drive through if the cars circle around the back of the building"
You and my 10 year old might be the only people in the neighborhood that would want a McDonald's. FYI. City of Minneapolis do not allow drive-thrus.
I still have memories of those tall-backed wooden booths, and the short fat parmesan cheese shakers from Lake Harriet Pizza. That, and the (what seemed to be) foot tall soft serve ice cream cones from Tom Thumb. We've obviously got ice cream covered in Linden Hills.. but I guess no real pizza place to speak of.
I'm not going to offer a ton of new insight - I don't really want a Tom Thumb type store back there, but I also don't really want to see a wine bar type place go in either. I would love if Rice Paper and Cafe 28 could get more business vs. opening another restaurant right there. I think the idea of a co-op "outlet" is awesome - like a year-round indoor farmers market. Who knows. Thanks for opening up the options Dave!
I am also a fan for a practical type business. I would love to see a smaller grocery store or drug store, someplace I could go to get the necessities. Another idea I like is a pet supply store, like a Chuck and Don's type place. I'm also a fan of a local pub, someplace that you can go for a quick bite to eat or a good drink.
I fully agree - that: For those of us who live in the neighborhood and walk the neighborhood, to the library, to the park, the move of the co-op is a terrible loss. It is the one "practical" spot.
I would favor any local business that is locally owned. I would patronize a Wine Bar with live music (perhaps from the Linden Hills House of Music), or a mini drug store or Lund's outlet.
Living a half a block from the Co-op has spoiled me. I will grieve when it moves! I have talked with the guys at Clancy's and they have asked to give a list of essentials they can keep on hand. They don't have a ton of space, but I think that may be helpful. Plus, it supports another local business. (Their scallops are amazing!)
I, also, like the idea of a neighborhood bar/cafe. Has anyone talked with the owners of the Edina/Highland/Longfellow Grills? I just shot an email to Dave Burley, one of the owners I know. Perhaps he would be interested.
I have lived in the neighborhood for years and although many of you believe that the co op was a great place to grocery shop, how about a grocery or drug store that the average person can really afford With the economy the way that it is I'm sure that many of us are trying to save a buck! The co-op was not a place that I would shop on a daily basis because it is way too expensive. Let's get realisitic folks. I suppose I should consider the socio economics of the people in the neighborhood but I think we would all benefit from a non-specialty type shop! A place that we can actually shop on a day to day basis for things that we need!
I've lived within two blocks of this area for over 60 years. I worked for Don at Hawkinsons grocery, bought sodas at the drug store where Twigs is today. I bought gas from Frank at the Pure station where Famous Daves sits. I love the Co-op, but will work out a way to continue to support it. Change has been the norm.
My vote is for a deli sytle restaurant with indoor and outdoor seating. Fresh salads, sandwiches, breakfast etc. The kind of place that would be an affordable family friendly place to go for a meal or for a healthy take out alternative.
Thanks,
Ed Crandall
A small grocery would be my first choice. While we are members of the CO-OP we only do 10% of our grocery shopping there.
I am so glad to see that we are not the only family in the neighborhood that wants basics, not luxury items, available to us in walking distance. I heard a person from out of town say, laughing, that he wanted to buy a candy bar, a bottle of Coke, and a pack of cigarettes, all available in his equally upscale neighborhood in another city, and found only bean sprouts, $50 socks, and wind chimes. (I suppose his three items would be considered luxury too. . . . I just would like to get milk and bread without driving). So yes, please, please, a convenience store.
Ditto to all the posts requesting a casual place to meet friends for drink. A locally owned pub with some ambiance would be perfect... like an irish pub or even something like Bulldog. Something that is family friendly during the day because it serves casual food and then catered more to adults at night. Chatterbox just doesn't cut it as the local hangout.
Ditto also to all the posts that said no more flower shops, toy stores, or gift stores.
As a mom of 3 young kids planning to raise my family in LH for many years.. we need more healthy food options for a quick bite after running the lake, playing at the park. etc. Everyone at the lake could stop in for a quick snack, smoothie, salad, lox & bagel, sushi, etc. Something like Common Roots cafe on 25th & Lyndale. Currently, besides the co-op, we have bread, muffins and more bread. Other great ideas:
*neighborhood restaurant like Busters on 28th.
*dog groomer
*Brasa
I think a neighborhood gathering place (pizza/deli/pub) would be great. Family-friendly, good food.
The area could definitely support another quality dining establishment...maybe with darts/pool tables/games to play while hanging out. Like the Chatterbox, but with good food and actual atmosphere.
A local pharmacy would never make it - Burch Pharmacy in Kenwood (a long-time, ind. business) has just closed down b/c they can't compete on Rx prices with Walgreens (etc).
And please lets not use that huge space for dog supplies/grooming!
Love that people are interested in some sort of pub. Maybe one that includes some outdoor seating?
What if we got SURLY beer company to open a small pub or mini brewery? Super popular. Something like that. I think that residents would be ok with it if it wasn't a "late night" place.
This neighborhood forum is a great idea! I'll echo the general sentiment: 1. a bar! 2. a convenience store/mini grocery - I love the Guse's West idea.
Unfortunately there isn't enough foot traffic to sustain a convenience-focused retail operation (is why the Coop moved), unless you want it to sell gas as well.
A neighborhood pub/bistro is the way to go. Think Brits, Local, Busters, etc.
If not this, plan for another high-end nick nack destination....
Great blog, although I am confused about the purpose because presumably the owner of the property will decide what goes there next ... ?
Any way, liquor laws can absolutely be changed. We lived behind Cafe Maude when it opened and Betsy Hodges got the State legislature to insert an amendment to state law exempting that specific address from liquor restrictions ... so surely she could do the same for Linden Hills? Might require a campaign donation or fundraiser but rest assured it is possible. ;-)
A pub would be an absolutely hit and add greatly to the neighborhood, especially if we could somehow get support from Surly and/or the Haugs.
Plus, if it's not a pub I shudder to think what else LH will come up with: Al Franken satellite office, kumbaya center, miniature Tibetan tree store, or an organic fair-trade nonviolent kid's clothing store. That McDonald's is sounding better and better ...
With the lake near by, perhaps a nice live bait store with a small sportings good area and guns/ammo section.
And being across the street from the BBQ place would make it a one stop shop for some of us.
I don't know why the hardware store doesn't sell ammo. Being from the south you could always find ammo at the hardware store.
I don't want a McDonalds unless they take Happy Meals off the menu for our location since those encourage bad life choices for the children and with this next choice we really really have to think about the children.
I think this is a great opportunity to make our neighborhood more diverse. What about getting a community services organization to take this location that helps the homeless and re-trains the unemployed or recovering addicts for new career opportunity? We could take a stand and enable the change we can believe in through creating an open minded, diverse community. Change begins at home.
Being that the new coop location will be 2 blocks from me, I don't want a grocery. We would love a pub or even something less bar-like similar to Edina Grill. Either way offer a nice outdoor patio. This would be perfect for reading after the library visits.
Walk up or dine in; fish and chips style pub.
I'd like to see a grocery store or a drug store or a upscale deli that serves wine and beer. I would prefer not to have a bar in that location due to the noise it would bring to the neighborhood.
I will echo many of the comments here: Linden Hills probably does not need more of what it already has and maybe should start looking towards expanding its scope, or at least bring back the oldies (e.g. Lake Harriet Pizza).
A pub/wine bar/brewpub has been a common suggestion here that should not be ignored. A serious look should be taken at changing the alcohol licensing for the neighborhood, a change that would also benefit the existing fine establishments.Take a look at the 48th & Chicago Ave neighborhood where Town Hall is planning to open a second location this fall. I guarantee I will be taking the short trip over to that neighborhood very often to take advantage. It is no secret that there has been an overwhelming interest in microbrews and brewpubs in the last few years which can be seen by the startup of many local breweries in the Twin Cities and greater metro area. I can not think of a better next addition to the neighborhood than having our own Linden Hills brewpub with locally brewed beer and good food (e.g. Town Hall, Barley John's, Great Waters, Fitger's Brewhouse). We even have local brewers in our neighborhood who would surely be supportive of this and, perhaps, willing to take their garage operations to a larger scale. It would be great to have a much more local place rather than always relying on 44th & France or 50th & France for local hangouts.
definitely a neighborhood pub and gathering place
A small grocery/convenience store is what this Vincent Ave residence and mom needs. Driving or walking to the new coop is not appealing (not pedestrian friendly and too far). I would prefer to continue to walk and purchase the items like milk, fruit, daily cravings. Long term a local grocer seems like a good fit. The in and out of clothing, boutique stores are for those who don't live in Linden Hills.
I was told some time ago by a city planner that the nbr 1 predictor of a successful community is a good grocery store. In my case it is what you can get to by walking. So, I vote for another Market!
I agree, thanks Dave for making this site available to all of us. I love shopping at Kowalski's Markets. I would love if one was in our neighborhood. What does everyone else think?
Post a Comment